The Reality Of Relocation In The NHL
In a bizarrely-timed article, Ken Campbell of The Hockey News (Hey! We're still relevant, we swear!) stirs up a hornet's nest of both Canadian and Southern U.S. fans just because he can, apparently. In the article, he says "There seems to be no shortage of talk concerning relocation these days," and then goes on to talk about a number of long-dead and longshot relocation ideas through the NHL. Without a real point or real news, he proceeds to bring up Phoenix, Nashville, Winnipeg, Atlanta, Kansas City, Seattle and Hamilton.
There was immediate reaction throughout the media, the Tacoma News Tribune turns Campbell's Seattle blurb into full-blown speculation about the Thrashers moving to Seattle. The Phoenix Business Journal claimed that the NHL already has a contingency deal to sell the team and move it to Winnipeg. The Winnipeg Free Press got a statement from True North denying the deal.
So even though we should all be discussing the playoffs and arguing why Ovechkin doesn't deserve the Hart Trophy, we'll stop off in the Land Of Make Believe and look at the markets that are often tossed around as destinations for those close-to-collapse* Southern U.S. teams.
Cincinnati

via wikitravel.org
Halifax (Maritimes)
Hamilton
Hartford
Houston
Kansas City
Quebec
Seattle
Winnipeg
*Just in case it wasn't clear, that was sarcasm.
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NFL season: late August – late January. I’d say that’s competition for hockey, which runs from early October to June.
Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.
Agreed
Kansas City, Seattle, Cincinnati all have NFL teams, I can’t say what the situation for the CFL is with some of the locations presented…
College sports also factors in… Though college basketball/football does not demand as many corporate dollars as the pro game, they do siphon off customers as competition to pro teams.
9:12. Lights out. Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Mar 30, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The CFL could be hurt by the NHL’s presence in Winnipeg, not the other way around. Halifax and Quebec City don’t have CFL clubs (though there are rumours of CFL expansion to those cities).
Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.
Moncton is cited more often than Halifax as a potential CFL city primarily because they have a CFL ready stadium. The Eskimos and Argos are having a game there this season and it’s tough not to see it as a test for whether people there would support a CFL team. Of the potential CFL expansion cities, it’s probably going to get a team first, but the team will be named for the region, sort of like the New England Patriots.
Quebec gets mentioned because of the university there which has been dominant in Canadian collegiate football but they might struggle with a pro franchise for the same reason the Nordiques had problems. People in Quebec City can be pretty harsh to anglophones, quite a bit more so than Montrealers, and guess what language most football players speak?
The Bombers could be adversely affected by a new NHL team, but they coexisted before and the seasons don’t have a lot of overlap. My understanding is they struggle quite a bit anyway with attendance. Not sure how that bodes for an NHL team though, since the Moose do pretty well.
by despisethesun on Mar 31, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Columbus
College football is practically religion in Columbus and the Blue Jackets have a solid fan base especially considering the lack of success we’ve had as a franchise. If we become a consistant playoff caliber team hockey will blow up in Columbus. Last year when we slid into the playoffs the buzz about the team of massive.
by shortnorthjacket on Mar 31, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that being in the west actually hurts Columbus. No geographical rivals and late-night television isn’t a good recipe for building fan support.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
How pumped would people get over regular games against the Pens?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Football is three days of the week. And hockey can compete against the NFL in the same city. It does now.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a frozen puck hitting the glass. It makes me happy.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community.
by Cassie McClellan on Mar 30, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
But can it compete with the NFL and MLB for corporate money?
Not to mention MLS in Kansas City?
The issue isn’t really walk-up fan spending — the catchment area for NFL teams is huge, and the MLB and NHL regular seasons overlap for 15 days max. The issue is corporate dollars, and count me doubtful that there’s a lot of money left over in Cincinnati or KC after both the NFL and MLB take their cut. The cities and their corporate communities aren’t that big.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
Not saying it can’t compete. Just saying that there is competition…. ignoring/not factoring in the NFL’s presence is not wise.
Where are the Lightning on Tampa sports coverage (cable TV, newspaper, etc.) on a Tuesday during the NFL-NHL season overlap? Do the Bucs get the lead story, or do the Lightning? That translates into real dollars down the line.
Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.
I could see an American team (Nashville, Florida, Phoenix, etc.) moving to Kansas City if they are having attendance issues, as it’s the one place in the country that’s pretty much “hockey ready” as far as facilities and corporate possibilities go. Would Kansas City support a hockey team? I dunno, I’ve never been there. But I could see a team moving to KC in the next few years to try it out.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
Quebec is back in the news lately as mayor Philippe Dutil and former Nordiques owner Marcel Aubut have been making noise about a return to Quebec. Quebe City’s mayor is Regis Labeaume… Philippe Dutil is Stanstead’s mayor, a little village in the province of Quebec.
Forget about a return to Quebec City in the next few years as they would have to build a new arena first.
Oops. I was reading about Hockeyville and got my stories crossed. Sorry.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Seattle
I love how Campbell just tosses out Seattle and fails to mention that there is NHL rink and that taxpayers refused to play to fix up the NBA building to keep their team.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
As a Seattleite, let me just say that that’s quite a one-sided summary of the Sonics issue. Clay Bennett’s demands for the taxpayers were entirely unreasonable—he wanted a team in Oklahoma City and the only way to get it would be to make an offer to Seattle that they had no choice but to refuse.
Building an arena would be an issue, but there are issues with every city on this list.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Mar 30, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Except Hamilton and Kansas City.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
There are absolutely issues with both of those.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Apr 1, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
As a native Puget Sounder myself, I would say that the building issue is a pretty significant one to overcome.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a frozen puck hitting the glass. It makes me happy.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community.
by Cassie McClellan on Mar 31, 2010 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, no doubt. But as I said, every city on here has issues to overcome. Seattle’s issue is considerable, but the upside is too big to ignore.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Apr 1, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s sad in a way to hear that Riverfront Coliseum (US Bank Arena), home of the Cincinnati Stingers, Hartford Civic Center (XL Center), and le Colisee (le Colisee Pepsi, in an unintentionally hilarious bit of naming) are no longer suitable for pro franchises, because they all supported pro teams in the ’70s and ’80s. Time marches on, indeed.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
The Bengals don't play at US Bank Arena
Riverfront Coliseum and US Bank are two different places.
by shortnorthjacket on Mar 31, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Wikipedia disagrees. Moreover, I said “Stingers,” not “Bengals.” The Stingers were a WHA team in the late ’70s. Among their famous alumni: Robbie Ftorek, Barry Melrose, Paul Stewart (yes that Paul Stewart), Mike Liut, Mike Gartner, and Mark Messier.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Pacific Northwest Relocation
Seattle would be the preferred option of course but don’t Tacoma and Portland both have facilities that can be used? I know the Rose Garden is NHL-compatible and the Tacoma Dome may be as well. Even if they’re over the border I’d think a team in any of those cities could easily get a rivalry going with the Canucks.
And I agree with sixsevenfiftysix (lived in Seattle for six years), yes Bennett (and the Mariners/Seahawks) made it difficult to do but not necessarily impossible.
The Tacoma Dome is a multi-purpose facility – basically, it’s just an empty dome with no permanent seating. They bring in seating to accommodate whatever event happens to be going on at the time, and take it out again for the next event. It would work as a temporary home, say, if Key Arena were being remodeled. It would never work as a permanent home for an NHL team, however. Even if the seating were up to par, there are no luxury suites and concessions are very modest.
The Rose Garden in Portland, Oregon, tho would work. It’s already home to the Portland Trailblazers so it’s up to NBA standards. And the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL play there as well, so there’s no problem with seating around an ice rink.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a frozen puck hitting the glass. It makes me happy.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community.
by Cassie McClellan on Mar 31, 2010 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Houston Aeros
should be reborn. The Houston population includes a bunch of people who are natives of the northeast and mid-west. Counter Phoenix and the Florida cities, these are people with high-dollar jobs, not fixed income retirees.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
If I had to order the above markets in order of best bets for a successful franchise.
Hamilton
Houston
Cincinnati
Seattle
Kansas City
Winnipeg
Hartford
Quebec
Halifax
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
i agree. unless the Brewers and Bucks were both to pack up and leave Milwaukee, I think Houston is probably the best USAmerican market to look at.
by Passive Voice on Mar 31, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The Houston population includes a bunch of people who are natives of the northeast and mid-west. Counter Phoenix and the Florida cities, these are people with high-dollar jobs, not fixed income retirees.
Not that Houston couldn’t work, but you can say the same thing about Atlanta. It’s definitely not as simple as “if you build it, they will come”.
Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.
Certainly there are no guarantees.
Frankly, I would be surprised that Atlanta has floundered had they had something approaching stable ownership and competent management. Neither appears to be the case. And, while Houston and Atlanta are similarly-sized MSAs, Houston seems (seems because this is impressionistic and based solely on my personal experience) to be richer in transplants from hockey country than is Atlanta. Houston draws a lot of skilled people in the petro-chemical industry. Many Big Ten schools are noted for producing high quality petroleum and chemical engineers. I’m a Penn State alum. I encounter fellow alumni regularly when I visit Houston.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
The general sports culture of a city matters.
And no disrespect meant to Atlanta, but their professional sports culture kind of sucks — it’s extremely fickle. Ask the Braves about trying to sell playoff tickets near the end of their dominant run. (Such is decidedly not the case in college sports, though — only the Research Triangle of NC has a credible argument to be more college sports-obsessed among US cities with major pro teams.)
Atlanta pro sports teams have to win and be good at marketing if they want to keep up; honestly, if the Thrashers didn’t have the co-ownership situation with the Hawks to cut their overhead costs, I think they’d have moved already.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
I’m a Dallas Stars fan from Houston, now living in Iowa. There are a lot of Stars fans in Houston. Just think of how great the rivalry would be between Dallas and Houston. It’d be pretty super.
Here's to all us girls who love hockey...and the men who play it.
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Mar 31, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
not on our dime
Major league sports owners these days always want taxpayers to subsidize their teams. Portland voters have consistently refused to do so.
Recently we rebuffed Microsoft co-founder and billionaire Paul Allen’s demands for subsidies for his hobby, the Trail Blazers, despite many Portlanders’ attachment to the team of Bill Walton and Clyde Drexler. Hockey is unlikely to get a different response.
I’m not sure what subsidies Portland would need for a hockey team. The Rose Garden is already suited for hockey and has the luxury suites to boot. Seems like you’re charging at windmills.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Great piece. Would love to see some southern squads relocate northward to hockey hungry cities, adding some names to this as-of-late dormant list: http://www.puckreport.com/2009/05/nhl-relocation.html
MG
Hartford's Problems
I am a former Whaler STH who is not waiting for the NHL to return. I know it is not going to happen. I will try to expand on the points made by Derek and point out a couple of things that were missed.
Yes it is true we did not support the previous team. Having a non-winner did not help but the facts are the facts. The business community cannot be counted on for sponsorship, or much else. Many of the larger companies are firing workers. Many others did not have much interest in the first place. Also the companies based downstate, towards NYC, may identify more with New York than CT. That is true of many of the towns in that part of the state.
The arena would need to be rebuilt or another one built in another location. Plain and simple. The current building is inadequate and cannot be refitted. There are no arena plans for Hartford being proposed by anyone. The current one is losing events to the other facilities in the state. The arena in Bridgeport for example has hosted previously and will host next year an NCAA hockey regional. Many concerts now choose the Mohegan Sun casino to play instead of Hartford. And that just scratches the surface.
You also completely leave out UConn sports on your list of competitors for the sports dollar. Right now UConn football is the rage. The basketball teams are almost passe’. The women don’t fill the XL for all their games and they haven’t lost in nearly two years.
To sum up, we had our shot. We were in and let it slip away. What you hear from us is nothing but crocodile tears.
It’s probably likely more Canadian cities would have good attendence, but as noted, the name of the game now is corporate dollars. Unless the NHL goes to larger revenue sharing like the NFL, moving teams to Hartford or Winnipeg would just mean those teams leaving again in a few years. Despite Bettman’s talk that the Leafs have no veto, you can bet they would work to scuttle any Hamilton bid. So the only real option is contraction. I’m sure a couple of teams will try to put off the idea with a move to KC or Portland, but the economics of the NHL just can’t support 30 teams.
"Ah, dinner. The perfect break between work and drunk." - Homer Simpson
but the economics of the NHL just can’t support 30 teams.
I’m not sure that I agree.
If you replace struggling teams with Hamilton, Houston, Seattle and I think Cincinnati, those are all really strong market possibilities.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
but the economics of the NHL just can’t support 30 teams.
I’m not sure that I agree.
If you replace struggling teams with Hamilton, Houston, Seattle and I think Cincinnati, those are all really strong market possibilities.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Cincinnati?
I understand the other three names, but CIN really surprises me. It is a fairly small market with a MLB and NFL team soaking up a lot of the corporate dollars in that area. Not sure the NHL is going to steal away many of those businesses. It is a similar problem that Nashville fances—absent a NFL team the Predators would be the only game in town, but since the NFL arrived they haven’t gotten the corporate support that is rather important.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Mar 31, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I live about an hour north of Cincy, and I really doubt the city would support an NHL team. The Dayton Bombers folded and the Cincy Cyclones are exactly full every night either. Granted they are both ECHL teams and the talent drop may have some effect. I’ve had a hard time convincing fellow college students to go to either game on dollar beer nights. On an average day, I’ll see at most one blue jackets shirt on someone around campus, and they’re about an hour and a half away. Miami’s success, to this point, hasn’t generated much hockey interest in south eastern Ohio, outside of Miami itself
by Hansmoleman on Mar 31, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
When I was an undergraduate
I would have gone to pee-wee games on dollar beer night.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
The Houston Aeros still exist, only in the AHL now. They are the Wild affiliate. They also play in the Toyota Center. Not saying that means there could not be an NHL team there, but it would cause issues with the Aeros, which are fully owned and operated by the Wild.
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.

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